极品人生

标题: audionote m8和m10 [打印本页]

作者: 小黑 时间: 2011-12-31 10:14
标题: audionote m8和m10
本帖最后由小黑于 2011-12-31 10:16 编辑

m10比m8要好，这个谁都知道。但是m8到底能有m10几成水准？两者最主要的差距在哪方面？

制作工艺和结构在书上都查到了，主要想知道声音表现区别和搭配建议，请了解的兄弟发表一下意见。

作者: 670707 时间: 2011-12-31 10:44
M10徒有三分体其表，名不副实。

作者: sm163 时间: 2011-12-31 11:13
支持黑兄先上m8，探下路

作者: xgl890 时间: 2011-12-31 11:31
我琢磨着m8也就是m10的80%，定型号的时候就这么定的吧！

作者: 小黑 时间: 2011-12-31 11:33
为甚不让我买M10呢？

作者: sm163 时间: 2011-12-31 11:43

为甚不让我买M10呢？
小黑发表于 2011-12-31 11:33

因为我搞不动M10

m8还有可行性

自私

作者: 胆摄共舞 时间: 2011-12-31 11:43
An之比kondo抢钱味浓！广告费多啊！

作者: 红苹果 时间: 2011-12-31 11:43
楼上不是说了,钱包满了的除外

作者: 小黑 时间: 2011-12-31 11:51

我琢磨着m8也就是m10的80%，定型号的时候就这么定的吧！
xgl890 发表于 2011-12-31 11:31

哈哈哈，高，实在是高。

作者: 小黑 时间: 2011-12-31 11:54

因为我搞不动M10m8还有可行性自私
sm163 发表于 2011-12-31 11:43

我说呢，原来有私心。

作者: LL1981 时间: 2011-12-31 12:02
恐怕上了M8还想着M10

作者: 37.5℃ 时间: 2011-12-31 12:08
兄弟等等吧.还会有m12

作者: Hendlr 时间: 2011-12-31 12:13
很想知道M8特别版（银制变压器）的真正实力，与KONDO的M77比到底怎样？日后升级的目标之一啊。

作者: 小黑 时间: 2011-12-31 12:22
北京阿威好像用的就是特别版M8，可以问问他。

作者: Hendlr 时间: 2011-12-31 12:27
回复小黑的帖子就是听阿威说好才定为YY对象的。“255mk2打不过我的audionote m8特别版，速度力度密度动态音场都输，前者更委婉些，味道各有千秋。”这是阿威的原话。

作者: Hendlr 时间: 2011-12-31 12:32
这是David的评价：“我只听过M8。其实它们哥仨的最大区别就在电源上，级别越高，电源规模就越大。当然其中的好处只有在大型系统上才能体现出来。我在北京阿威那里听M8+FM411，印象极深极好。只是，连二手的M8都要10~13万，不知根知底，真不敢碰。还有一点供兄考虑，胆的后续供应一定要考虑好，NOS胆买一只少一只，要配对的话就更难，所以，要是我上成品胆前级，会考虑AN的M8或者KONDO的M77，一来省米，二来搜集NOS备用胆的压力会小一些，因为M8/M77用的胆的数量少一些。”
有哪些兄台听过能否也谈谈？

作者: Hendlr 时间: 2011-12-31 12:36
但“隐市”大佬却又说过M10与FM115搭配不是不好听，是“不能听”。

作者: 小黑 时间: 2011-12-31 12:42
我在阿威家听过他当时的M8+411+威信8，感觉是威信8在他家发挥最好的一次。

作者: Hendlr 时间: 2011-12-31 12:48
支持小黑兄先上M8银版探路，我等纸上谈兵的YY客好跟上

作者: Hendlr 时间: 2011-12-31 12:57
还是David的话：“听CD的话，阿威的M8系我听过的最好前级（无论胆石、没有之一）。至于NOS胆，我问过大象行，他们提供一套M8的备用胆（似乎是5只），大约3000元人民币。但我相信那些胆不会是特别牛的胆。年代早一些（比如50年代）的、知名度高一些的NOS管是相当贵的。比如5687这只AN/KONDO喜欢用的管子，我近期从美国买的一对（配对、低噪音）5687 Tungsol是175美元，不含运费及银行手续费。”
唉，大佬的话毒人啊！

作者: kyw 时间: 2011-12-31 13:11
M8与M10主放线路一样，M10输出牛铁芯不一样效率与频宽不一样，电源更不一样。M8没有M10八成功力。

作者: David 时间: 2011-12-31 13:43
从可得到的资料看（各位看官请留意这个前提），M10输出牛（铁芯所用）的坡莫合金的含镍量是55%，而M8是50%。两者的输出牛可能还有其它的不同，只是我们尚不知道。

作者: David 时间: 2011-12-31 13:45
2008年在香港某论坛上下载的帖子：
M8 已經是劇毒，M10 更是見血封喉。。。
Audio Note M8有幸聽過。那天只是聽許美靜的廣東大碟，感動不已，弄得我鼻子酸溜溜。我想Chowhwk會喜歡Audio Note M8。
友人也是如此說， M8 是有本事把細緻的美態和像火車頭的動態和澎湃集于一身。
下一次找機會聼一下。
就價錢計M10貴M8 MK2約50%，但講聲M10係恐怖級拋離M8。所以你若試M8就不如狠下心腸直上M10

鐵兄,M10 lee支唔係兩頭都利既針,而是係一支超級大毒針,打了入人體內,再世華佗都救唔番,真的要唱;小生小生怕怕囉....................

作者: 小黑 时间: 2011-12-31 13:47
这下真被吓倒了。

作者: David 时间: 2011-12-31 13:52

这下真被吓倒了。
小黑发表于 2011-12-31 13:47

所以你若試M8就不如狠下心腸直上M10，呵呵。

作者: 小黑 时间: 2011-12-31 13:56
被吓倒的原因就是M10高昂的价格。

作者: David 时间: 2011-12-31 14:09
上张AN排行老二的前级输出牛给小黑兄看看，帮助下定决心。
[attach]40639[/attach]

作者: David 时间: 2011-12-31 14:13
AN关于变压器的白皮书，技术性太强，就不翻译了。
AN transformer design
The Audio Note™ Transformer Design Philosophy
The Theory
The electronic valve is a high voltage, low current device which is incapable of driving a low impedance loudspeaker directly. Although output-transformer-less (OTL) designs have appeared from time to time, with these types many devices are connected in parallel and a large amount of negative feedback is used to achieve a workable, but not necessary satisfactory result. The efficiency of the output transformer less circuit is also always very, very low due to the severe impedance mismatch, so a large amount of power must be dissipated within the output valves to achieve a tiny output into the loudspeaker. The only way to correctly match a valve output stage to a low impedance loudspeaker is via a step-down output transformer.
The transformer is sometimes seen as a barrier to amplifier performance, and whilst on a theoretical level this is to an extent is true. A transformer does have a finite bandwidth, but as will be shown and discussed later in this article, when properly researched, designed and made the limits achievable in practice are more than wide enough for what is required by the harmonic envelope of a musical signal. Most of the problems normally referred to in this regard relate to problems in amplifiers utilising negative feedback. The limited bandwidth (which may still exceed that of the human ear) and associated phase shifts can make the amplifier unstable, this situation is made considerably worse if there is a strong high frequency resonance present in the transformer itself.
The Design
At Audio Note™ we have spent many hundreds of hours involved in a combination of theoretical research and experimental work to develop and combine proprietary interleaving methods and winding techniques to extend the bandwidth of our transformers to the point at which they could be considered not only excellent components from the technical standpoint, but virtually invisible from a sonic perspective. In some of our designs as many as five wires are wound onto the bobbin at the same time, using these methods a bandwidth of 5Hz to 200kHz is achievable with a transformer for single ended operation of a 300B triode. This extended bandwidth presents the valve with a constant impedance load across the audio range thereby minimising distortion, and allows all of the harmonic overtones and transient events of the music to be accurately reproduced within the harmonic envelope.
Perhaps not surprisingly, we have found that the materials used within the transformer greatly affect the both the sound quality and measured performance. This is an area largely overlooked both now and in the past cost and ease of use was and still is the primary considerations.
Theoretically speaking, the Interleave Insulation and Primary to Secondary Insulation acts as the dielectric in a distributed capacitor, therefore it can be seen that the properties of the dielectric material will affect the electrical and sonic performance of the transformer. Electrical quantities to be considered are dielectric constant, which affects the magnitude of the resultant distributed capacitor and dielectric absorption, which causes distortion by hysteresis. A vacuum is off course the ideal choice as it has a low dielectric constant and no dielectric absorption, but a vacuum is as impractical as it is unrealisable in anything but a laboratory. We have therefore experimented with every man-made plastic insulating material available, but in the end we found that the best sounding material is a special type of paper. Paper is a natural material, and although subject to variations as are all such materials, it is more conducive to creating a natural sound. As with all Audio Note™products the ear was the final arbiter as to which material was to be used.
The Wires
The wire used to wind the transformer is also critical and in this area as in many others Audio Note™ was the company that pioneered the finest, Silver and it was therefore natural to put silver to good use in our best output transformers. Why silver sounds so superior is still not fully understood, but it is unlikely to be simply a function of conductivity.
One theory puts forward the notion that the intense AC electrical and magnetic fields within the transformer interact in some way with the wire material. Another theory considers the crystalline structure of each material copper is very sensitive to impurities, in particular oxygen, it is also possible that the differences are caused by effects that occur on the surface of the material. Surface chemistry is different to that of the bulk material, the atoms at the surface are exposed, rather than being enclosed within the crystal lattice. When the metal is drawn into wire the surface will quickly adsorb components of the air, particularly oxygen and nitrogen as they are most prevalent and despite our best efforts (we coat our immediately it leaves the die), some contamination still takes place. After a while a bulk reaction takes place producing a layer of oxide and sulphide. Silver and copper compounds are similar chemically but not identical. Copper oxide is a rather poor semiconductor compound capable of producing rectification effects whereas silver oxide is a good conductor and is used in switch contacts and batteries. It may be possible to draw wire in an inert atmosphere such as argon and then cover the wire before it reaches the air or to chemically treat the surface before coating to further improve the wires.
The Cores
The core of the transformer is vital for it’s operation. In our standard transformers we use good quality silicon steels but in our finest specialist transformers we make no compromises and use the very best and very expensive nickel irons such as Radiometal. 3% silicon steel is widely used around the world and is produced in vast quantities China, America, Japan, Russia and the UK are amongst the countries where this material is manufactured. For our economy transformers we use a material known as M6, in laminations of 0.35mm thickness. The material is first cold rolled, to align the grain structure, into a tape then it is punched into laminations. The problem with this is that the flux runs anti-parallel to the preferred direction at the back of the "E". This means that at that point the materials full potential is not realised at that point increasing losses and decreasing effective permeability. M6 steel has reasonably low hysteresis, good permeability (approximately 10,000) and high saturation flux density (approximately 2T or 20,000 Gauss). The problem of poor grain orientation is alleviated if we move from I-E laminations to a C-Core. Here the metal tape, after being cold rolled, is wound into a loop and then cut, now the magnetic flux always travels in the preferred direction in the steel, this alone gives a significant increase in performance. When we move up to a C-Core we change the material’s specifications to M0 or HiB silicon steel a material that has slightly lower losses and higher permeability than M6, the permeability of HiB can be 40,000 or more. HiB is processed in a different way to M6 giving it a different grain structure this special material is manufactured in Japan and America only. Our finest transformers use two versions of Radiometal core in the form of a C-Core. Radiometal is a 36% Nickel iron and Superradiomatel a 48% Nickel iron alloy of excellent magnetic properties the permeability is similar to that of HiB but it’s saturation flux density is lower at 1.6T or 16000 Gauss. Radiometal has a much lower hysteresis loss than silicon steel and is far more sensitive to small signals. If one is to firstly listen to a transformer with the best silicon steel core and then change to one with the Radiometal core, one experiences more colour and texture in the performance and more low level details are present. The high frequencies are so much clearer. It is like the difference between an artificial light and sunlight.
A Little History
Traditional transformer designers still use winding calculations and technology that were established in the 1940’s, just after WWII, these calculations are designed to yield the best results from a standard M6 type C-core and companies like Partridge, Savage, Parmeko and Gardners made excellent examples of these types of conventional Push Pull output transformers in the 1950’s and 1960’s, however, the when the new highly permeable magnetic materials such as the Radiometals emerged in the 1950’s no-one realised that they require a quite different approach to winding technique to get the best magnetic coupling between the windings and the core possible and thereby utilising the capabilities of these fine magnetic materials fully. Over 40 years later Audio Note™is so far the only company in the world to conduct such work. Work, which is further enhanced by the advantage of having both in-house transformer and circuit design capabilities side by side, something which allows Audio Note™ to design our transformers specifically for a specific circuit thus maximising the harmonic envelope and dynamic transfer and utilising the best combination of both, because we can always check the sonic properties of any given combination during the prototype stages.
No other audio manufacturer have this in-house facility, and there have to source standard designs from transformer manufacturers who do not have the ability or necessary understanding of electronic circuitry to test and design the best possible transformer for each specific application, but will always supply a compromise.
In contrast Audio Note™ designs its best transformers practically without cost restraints a fact which has resulted in a transformer quality undreamed of even 20 years ago, the completely "invisible" transformer is a goal so far unattainable, the Audio Note™ silver wired Super Radiometal 48 C-core transformer is the closest alternative!
The Single-Ended Transformer
One final point of interest with a S.E. transformer is the air gap. This is necessary in order to bring the operating point of the core to the correct region on its B-H curve. It does not seem that anyone has ever experimented with anything other material than paper or plastic for use as a spacer between the core limbs. At Audio Note™ we have discovered that the use of a metallic spacer reduces the distortion produced by the transformer and the improvement in the sound of the transformer is considerable provided the correct material is used and it is applied in the correct way.
Overall a transformer could be described in a similar way to a culinary dish. To get the best flavour one must use the best ingredients and cook them in the correct way and as new ingredients emerge and are developed, be sure that Audio Note™ will be the first cooks to write the new recipes…

The Audio Note™ Group C, Double C-Core Output transformers
Why Does Audio Note™ Choose Double C-Cores Rather Than I-E Core?
This is an area of very little understanding in the modern audio industry and as a result much controversy, so Andy Grove and I would like to give at least some background as to why Audio Note’s best transformers use C-cores and always will do, despite cost and availability problems.
Basic (very) domain theory tells us that magnetic steels function by two main processes, domain growth and domain rotation.
Under low magnetisation, the field domains, which are oriented in the direction of the applied field, grow at the expense of their non-oriented and anti-parallel neighbours, this low field domain growth is generally reversible if the field is removed.
Under a medium applied field again domain growth is the predominant factor. However there will be some non-reversible growth of the domains, and a reverse field is required to return them to their original state.
Under a large magnetisation field those domains, which were not oriented in the direction of the applied field start to rotate towards that direction. Eventually all of the domains are pointing in the direction of the applied field and saturation is reached.
This neatly explains the familiar shape of the B-H curve and hysteresis loop.
Essentially iron crystalises in a body cubic form and the domains are oriented parallel to the edges of the crystal, therefore an iron crystal will be easier to magnetise if the applied field is parallel to an edge, and will be most difficult to magnetise in a diagonal direction across the cube.
In a non-oriented material the crystals and the domains are oriented randomly, therefore it will magnetise much the same in any direction. However no direction is aligned with the preferred direction of all of the crystals, and a lot of the crystals will be oriented in the worst direction.
Therefore permeability is low and losses are high. The hysteresis loop will be wide and rounded. In a singly oriented steel (M4 etc, there are cubic oriented types which we use as well) the crystals are oriented so that two of the faces are perpendicular to the strip rolling direction, two of the edges are parallel to it and the other edges are at 45 degrees to the strip surface. In other words the plane of the strip cuts the diagonal of the faces, which are perpendicular to it. This means that the material is very easy to magnetise by a field parallel to the strip rolling direction as the domains are facing in that direction.
This makes for a material with a high permeability, low losses and a narrow rectangular hysteresis loop when the field is in the strip direction. But it also means that a field in any other direction in the plane of the strip will be trying to magnetise the crystal in it’s worst possible mode. The highest losses always occur at approximately 45 degrees to the rolling direction, in the plane of the strip.

This diagram shows the magnetization behaviour of GOSS and non-GOSS strip relative to rolling direction The I-E Core
Now, laminations are punched out of a steel strip such that the “arms” of the E point in the strip direction, however the back of the E is perpendicular to the rolling direction. The I is punched so that it’s longest side is parallel to the rolling direction. This of course means that with an I-E laminated transformer the flux has to curve round, across the grain at the corners, both at the junction of E and I and at the back of the E, and travel perpendicular to it across the back of the E.
In addition I-E laminations generally have whopping great holes punched just where you don’t want them. This means that a stack of grain oriented laminations ends up with better properties than a non-oriented stack but not by much. Quite serious curvature of the B-H curve starts to appear at around 1.2T to 1.3 T (Tesla) even though true saturation doesn’t occur until about 1.6T to 1.8T. The C-Core.
Enter the C-Core, as the C-Core is wound out of the strip the flux always traverses the preferred direction. This means that a C-Core remains linear almost to saturation and then hits a brick wall around 1.8T maybe a bit more. The losses are much lower as well, and that translates into lower distortion as the hysteresis loop is narrow and straight sided. Let’s say that 1.3T peak is as far as one would like to go on lams, and 1.7T peak for a C-Core that is a ratio of 1:1.3. So for a given number of turns on a core of equal dimension the C-Core could sustain a 30% higher voltage across that winding.
That is an increase in power of 70% for a given level of core distortion.
Or translated into the realm of mains power transformers it explains why strip wound cores, especially toroidal transformers are so small for their power rating. Of course increasing the cross sectional area of a stack of lams can equalise the power rating but that brings about an increase in winding length and hence an increase in leakage inductance and capacitance.
In the Audio Note™ high quality output transformers we use 50% or 55% nickel iron alloys, both oriented and non-oriented through a carefully developed, customised and proprietary heat treatment processes depending upon the application. These materials offer greatly reduced distortion at low signal levels, due to the very narrow hysteresis loop of these materials. The downside is their expense and lower saturation flux density, which in single-ended low power amplifier applications is not an issue. A small word about winding technology.
Traditionally, transformer design has focused on achieving the widest possible frequency response and this has been the main tenet of design priority for the past 80 or so years, in our research into the behaviour and interaction between coil and core we have discovered that when dealing with the highly permeable nickel cores, purely looking at frequency as the main arbiter of transformer quality is woefully inadequate and as a result we have spent years developing and refining the best way of winding the coil with special focus on improving the low level linearity and bandwidth, the end results speak for themselves.
From a purely practical standpoint, thin materials in the 0.1mm range are impossible to handle as large laminations, especially in the very mechanically soft nickel irons, and the C-Core format allows their use. Very thin laminations or strips are more important to very high permeability materials because eddy currents in thicker material, greatly reduces the effective permeability.
But remember that flux density is inversely proportional to frequency so at 1kHz the flux density in an output transformer will only be 2% of that at 20Hz, and 0.1% of it at 20kHz. Assuming 1.3T peak at 20Hz (for lams of M6) that gives 26mT peak at 1kHz and 1.3mT peak at 20kHz.
A high frequency power transformer such as used in a switch mode supply transformer would run the core at maybe 0.5T or more peak at 20kHz and then losses would become very significant. This is where ferrites with their very high intrinsic resistance become important, but useless for wideband audio applications.
Cobalt irons offer high saturation flux densities but they have a very wide hysteresis loop, not far from a semi-hard material and they don’t lend themselves to audio output transformer work where low level resolution is paramount.
This fact does not relegate cobalt based materials from other audio applications, for example permendur (49% cobalt) has uses in pole pieces for magnets in phono cartridges, loudspeakers and for electromagnets as the high saturation flux density allows for a greater density in the gap.
Here the material is generally driven into saturation by a DC polarising field.

作者: 小黑 时间: 2011-12-31 14:13
排行老二的是什么型号？M9？但是M9比M10还要贵。

作者: ddq-007 时间: 2011-12-31 14:13
m10和jadis旗舰前级风格有什么不同，谁素质更高些。

作者: David 时间: 2011-12-31 14:16
本帖最后由 David 于 2011-12-31 14:18 编辑

回复小黑的帖子
是在这个网站上能买到的第二贵的AN前级输出牛：
www.partsconnecxion.com

作者: 小黑 时间: 2011-12-31 14:20
哦，知道了。
可惜看不懂好坏，我对胆机就是一文盲。

作者: David 时间: 2011-12-31 14:35

哦，知道了。
可惜看不懂好坏，我对胆机就是一文盲。
小黑发表于 2011-12-31 14:20

半斤对八两，我也是刚玩胆机。

作者: sigh 时间: 2011-12-31 21:30
DAVID 讲述，让自己对胆机眼热。

作者: kyw 时间: 2011-12-31 23:49
AN胆前M6、M8、M9、M10有很高分析力、很快速度、超强推动力（30MA输出牛、低内阻）、有晶体管的长处和胆长处、配后级容易。唯有配换胆时麻烦，M10超10支胆。

作者: David 时间: 2012-1-1 09:08
KYW兄说的没错，记得AN网页改版前曾经给出的M8输出阻抗是小于10欧姆的（别说胆前级，不少晶体前级的输出阻抗都要高得多），厂家宣称可使用长信号线来接后级。唯独不爽的是，AN（KONDO也是）使用的胆都不是内地常见的，只能到国外去搜。KONDO爱用的6072（12AY7）很难找到NOS。

作者: David 时间: 2012-1-1 09:15
回复 David 的帖子
1989兄，俺这个前级是向audionotekits买的，原配是EI铜牛，坡莫合金银输出牛是后配的，图中的牛的引线还没焊接呢。脚下的螺丝空位置不匹配。

作者: ikushi 时间: 2012-1-1 10:58
一直默默的学习到这里，发现踊跃发言的众教授向往（M8或M10）者远远多过实际的用家。其实就我所认识的坛内就有几位深潜水的高手是M10的资深玩家，有些甚至不止使用一台。
我不懂技术的活儿，但据我的木耳听感，M8与M10远远不是差20%这么简单，包括价钱！
前级是系统的灵魂（火车头），没有灵魂，情何以堪？

与David兄的建议巧合，我也私底下进谏小黑兄：一步到位，免得后悔啊！

作为一名AN KONDO的忠实拥趸和玩家，我很欣赏英国AN的老板及其器材，不愧为一名营商高手和技术能手。而与此相比，日本的KONDO就显得过分顽固和自信，更不善广纳民意。这也许跟他们的出身以及各自的文化底蕴有关？
鉴于器材本身的特性和系统其他器材的搭配，我并没有向小黑兄推荐KONDO。“系统”就是一个复杂的组合工程，需要单打独斗的猛士，更需要统帅全军的将才。

同样道理，当我看到有高人发表“听了M10就扔下M1000”的高论时，我真的很想讨教：你真正拥有过这两个名器么？

伟大领袖毛主席教导我们：“实践出真知，斗争（折腾）长才干”！
祝小黑兄：新年快乐！

作者: rock 时间: 2012-1-1 11:08

一直默默的学习到这里，发现踊跃发言的众教授向往（M8或M10）者远远多过实际的用家。其实就我所认识的坛内就 ...
ikushi 发表于 2012-1-1 10:58

越是高手潜水越深...也不冒冒泡...呵呵..

作者: ikushi 时间: 2012-1-1 11:12
回复 rock 的帖子
ROCK兄：新年快乐！《极品人生》新年进步！

其实他们统统是幕后黑手！因恐误人子弟，故只在自家的私家地里默默耕耘啦

作者: rock 时间: 2012-1-1 11:20

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ROCK兄：新年快乐！《极品人生》新年进步！
其实他们统统是幕后黑手！因恐误人子弟，故只 ...
ikushi 发表于 2012-1-1 11:12

郁兄新年好! 2012年要多走动啊...呵呵..

作者: MJL988 时间: 2012-1-1 12:36
有米就上M10，不用多考！小黑兄，2012年就要定了M10!

作者: guhelim 时间: 2012-1-1 14:12

被吓倒的原因就是M10高昂的价格。
小黑发表于 2011-12-31 13:56

套句台湾大老的话;迟早要做的事何必让自己忍的这么辛苦

作者: xrxsxq 时间: 2012-1-1 14:56

郁兄新年好! 2012年要多走动啊...呵呵..
rock 发表于 2012-1-1 11:20

rock版，新年快乐！

作者: kennymark 时间: 2012-1-2 00:42
我现用M8 2代，搭配后级上没有问题。平衡有平衡的好，单端有单端的风格。
我的建议是，“如果钱不是问题，就一定要上M10”。
另外Kondo M1000是另外一个风格的，应该说跟M10各有千秋。

作者: 小黑 时间: 2012-1-2 01:15
感谢楼上各位关心与支持的兄弟。看来你们是真的和我的钱包过不去呀。

作者: mark33h 时间: 2012-1-2 03:00
回复小黑的帖子

哈哈哈哈！！！摇把真多啊！小黑你还能扛多久啊！我要是你早扛不住了！

作者: liao 时间: 2012-1-2 10:22

感谢楼上各位关心与支持的兄弟。看来你们是真的和我的钱包过不去呀。
小黑发表于 2012-1-2 01:15

总要有人走前面，就定下吧！

作者: kyw 时间: 2012-1-2 11:12
全新m10 47万左右。mk2 80万左右。二手m10 28万左右，换了一套新胆也不过30万。可以考虑啦

作者: kyw 时间: 2012-1-2 11:14
本帖最后由 kyw 于 2012-1-2 11:18 编辑

香港高峰an套件做好14万港币

作者: stmark 时间: 2012-1-2 13:34
m8的价格多少？如承受得起的话也有意上。本人使用M6，MK2.已相当好了。

作者: tcsbj 时间: 2012-1-2 15:01
初哥同问: AN的M8好像已经MKIV了，全新多少能拿到？？ Kando的M77 全新多少？？
旗舰肯定更好，但普通烧友还是得HOLD住啊。我现在用Mark326s，打算保留，另找一部胆前来玩儿。

作者: sm163 时间: 2012-1-2 15:09

全新m10 47万左右。mk2 80万左右。二手m10 28万左右，换了一套新胆也不过30万。可以考虑啦
kyw 发表于 2012-1-2 11:12

没那么高吧？32w?

作者: sm163 时间: 2012-1-2 15:10

m8的价格多少？如承受得起的话也有意上。本人使用M6，MK2.已相当好了。
stmark 发表于 2012-1-2 13:34

我在用m6 mk3，m8好象要15w.

作者: stmark 时间: 2012-1-2 21:20
太贵了，15万

作者: kyw 时间: 2012-1-3 00:57
本帖最后由 kyw 于 2012-1-3 01:02 编辑

回复 sm163 的帖子
m10代理定价54万出街价47万（代理报价）二手价是某二手店报。我所说行货价，现市场上AN有全新当二手卖（非行货）

作者: sm163 时间: 2012-1-3 01:28
回复 kyw 的帖子

价格好啊

作者: David 时间: 2012-1-3 06:07

香港高峰an套件做好14万港币
kyw 发表于 2012-1-2 11:14

高峰套件的M10早有耳闻, 不知与原装M10差距大不大?

作者: David 时间: 2012-1-3 06:08

初哥同问: AN的M8好像已经MKIV了，全新多少能拿到？？ Kando的M77 全新多少？？
旗舰肯定更好，但普通烧友 ...
tcsbj 发表于 2012-1-2 15:01

M77零售价在英国似乎是28000英镑, 回头查一下.

作者: 尘客 时间: 2012-1-3 08:52

M77零售价在英国似乎是28000英镑, 回头查一下.
David 发表于 2012-1-3 06:08

国内曾询过20W出头不多应该可拿到。

作者: kyw 时间: 2012-1-3 08:57
回复 David 的帖子

高峰M10内里跟ANM10貌似一样但声音没对比过，看过没听过。

作者: 小黑 时间: 2012-1-3 22:31
哎哟喂，各位，都开始提供价格参考了呀。下毒也很少见这么狠的吧。

作者: David 时间: 2012-1-4 12:18
OPM（other people's money, 别人的钱）是最好花的。

作者: 烧海无涯 时间: 2012-2-3 14:46
围观中。。。。。

作者: 棍棍 时间: 2012-2-3 17:57
都是米人，净放毒

作者: momo 时间: 2012-2-17 20:16
真正有米的大佬

作者: lgj16 时间: 2018-9-10 13:38
看看结果！

作者: peregrine 时间: 2022-10-21 15:26
普通m8和m6签名版价格差不多，谁能胜出？有点好奇。哪位大佬听过，能否指点一、二？

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