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标题: 同样是比CD规格高的SACD为何没轰动，而高规格音频文件轰动了 [打印本页]

作者: morefeel 时间: 2011-3-10 21:55
标题: 同样是比CD规格高的SACD为何没轰动，而高规格音频文件轰动了
SACD的音频指标比起时下流行的MASTER级别或STUDIO级别音频文件，丝毫不逊色，为何SACD这么多年都没轰动，而现在的所谓高规格音频文件却轰动了，是不是因为音频文件的获得成本比SACD低太多了？一人购买，大家拷贝，网上也有下载或廉价出售。

作者: 3l-audio 时间: 2011-3-11 00:00
From Acousence Records

SACD

We have not yet produced any SACDs at ACOUSENCE to date because we were initially far from convinced of the musical result when we performed our own experiments using the DSD (Direct Stream Digital) recording procedure for SACD, not to mention a strange tone colouration and unnaturalness in the timbre and tone structures of individual instruments. External productions that we have heard so far also gave no occasion for us to believe that anything else could be achieved with this medium at all.

As can be read in various professional articles written by ACOUSENCE's label chief, Ralf Koschnicke, temporal resolution plays a very significant role in music transfer, and in this respect, the DSD recording method of SACDs is open to criticism. Although the transmission range in this method is not sharply restricted by filters, as with a CD, the high frequency noise inherent in the system starts at 20 kHz already, so that the signal parts that are so essential to the musical fine structure are easily masked by signal noise, which ultimately leads to a similar result as the one effected by filtering in a CD.

The concept behind the sound carrier itself, however, continues to be very interesting; it is simply a breeze to operate and presumably the SACD is indeed the last, honest-to-goodness sound carrier that we will get for the foreseeable future - if not for ever. New experiments have now been performed, in particular on the basis of the current theoretical considerations with regard to the relevance of the HF information for musical accuracy, that were aimed at having the signal noise, if it cannot be avoided in the first place, start as high up as possible (with respect to the starting frequency) and thereby having all parts of the useful signal above the signal noise, if possible, at least at CD-level, that is -90dB. We have succeeded in doing so by recording the sum output of the analogue mixer directly via DSD converters by the EMM Labs company in DSD format and by using the dynamic range, which is significantly higher compared to conventional PCM audio, up to the limits of the allowed SACD specifications in the process. Incidentally, it became very clear that the temporal resolution of detail suffers considerably and that the strange tone colouration mentioned above occurs already if the level is only 8db lower, for example.

Now that our first SACD has been mastered, the results are convincing all around. The chosen method in particular - recording in 4fs (24bit/192kHz) multi-track, analogue mixing, then converting it very puristically 1:1 in DSD on the SACD - appears to be the ideal way for this format. Based on the experience made, pre-production in DSD is just as inexpedient – for that, the 64fs DSD of the SACD is simply unsuitable due to the noise problem – as the commonly used path via PCM digital audio in 48Khz or even 44.1kHz – in that case, the resolution is limited far below the potential of the SACD already.

On the two figures shown below, one can see a passage from our "DER SYMPHONISCHE RING“, digitalised both times for the purpose of graphical representation in 24/192 PCM but sent down the DSD ADDA route first. The measuring range is calibrated to 90dB=Black.

作者: 3l-audio 时间: 2011-3-11 00:06
更详细
http://bbs.hifi168.com/showtopic-172246-4.aspx

作者: rock 时间: 2011-3-11 11:38
SACD 在听感上并不比CD 好听...高格文件主要是方便...

作者: 狗儿念经 时间: 2011-3-11 12:11

SACD 在听感上并不比CD 好听...高格文件主要是方便...
rock 发表于 2011-3-11 11:38

真正纯粹的SACD比如channel classical、“五音”等公司的声音还是很好，而且平衡感尤佳。但滥竽充数的所谓SACD大概也太多了，不仅没起到推进SACD向前的良性趋势，反而鱼目混珠般地“蒙混”了广大消费者。我想这也是原因之一。

作者: 长风破浪 时间: 2011-3-11 12:47
我估计是因为sacd必须sacd的播放机才能听，而很多烧友都没要专门购买sacd的播放器，而高码率音频文件即使是pchifi都能听，至少门槛就低

作者: 狗儿念经 时间: 2011-3-11 12:49

我估计是因为sacd必须sacd的播放机才能听，而很多烧友都没要专门购买sacd的播放器，而高码率音频文件即使是 ...
长风破浪发表于 2011-3-11 12:47

这肯定也是原因之一。

作者: 牛仔 时间: 2011-3-11 12:59
SACD是1比特读取，要比16、24比特强大

作者: 江河行 时间: 2011-3-11 13:15
主要是SACD片源少而且贵，有其多声道硬件标要求也高，国内没有普及，听说国外普及率高些。

作者: robinwood 时间: 2011-3-11 15:05

主要是SACD片源少而且贵，有其多声道硬件标要求也高，国内没有普及，听说国外普及率高些。
江河行发表于 2011-3-11 13:15

主要还是软件发行量的问题。如果跟CD差不多的发行量，估计普及也方便。但是到这个时候再普及已经晚了！

作者: 3l-audio 时间: 2011-3-11 15:20
多声道是致命伤，SACD如是，DVD-Audio如是，LP年代的4-2-4亦如是。

作者: bluesky 时间: 2011-3-11 15:22

多声道是致命伤，SACD如是，DVD-Audio如是，LP年代的4-2-4亦如是。
3l-audio 发表于 2011-3-11 15:20

我同意这种说法。

作者: 3l-audio 时间: 2011-3-11 15:28
同一家公司的录音

多声的录音

播放两声道的文件

两声道的录音

差距之大，不说了......

作者: xgl890 时间: 2011-3-11 15:56

真正纯粹的SACD比如channel classical、“五音”等公司的声音还是很好，而且平衡感尤佳。但滥竽充数的所谓 ...
狗儿念经发表于 2011-3-11 12:11

严重同意！混事的sacd盘太多了，听感真的不如cd，从国外定了一些还有不错的！

作者: cmos88 时间: 2011-3-11 19:42
SACD 要普及也就是要让它要被一般的爱好者所接受，但太晚了。

1）对普通用户而言SACD与CD都是CD，没啥区别。
2）SACD的优势需要一套相应的硬件设备才能发挥，普通用户不不会为此而升级自己的重放硬件。
3）SACD刚开始推广时，SONY认为主要用户是发烧友。所以主流音乐CD的发行并没有因为SACD的出现而淡出或有意平稳过渡。
4）等到电脑技术以及相关的CD刻录技术发展到连一个小学生都能坐在家里刻录音乐CD时，再想普及推广SACD已太晚了。更可笑的是SACD里面这层没有任何保护的普通CD 层竟然与具有强大防盗技术涵量的SACD层同时存在。

作者: cmos88 时间: 2011-3-11 19:57
还有：
5）制造SACD播放机和压制SACD碟片的厂商都要得到SONY的授权。

作者: 长风破浪 时间: 2011-3-12 10:10
现在数码流大行其道，sacd注定昨日黄花了

作者: scfan 时间: 2011-3-13 09:06
这倒也未必，欧洲很多小厂牌或者乐团独立厂牌，还是很喜欢采用SACD发行录音，售价和它家的CD基本持平。涵盖了很多欧洲的大牌乐团，比如LSO, RCO和Gewandhaus等。

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